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THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS

First Session, Thirty-eighth Parliament, 2004-05

Hearings: OTTAWA, Monday, March 7, 2005  4 p.m. - Issue No. 7 - Fifth meeting on:

Examine and report upon Canadas obligations in regards to the rights and freedoms of children.

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

The Honourable A. Raynell Andreychuk, Chair

The Honourable Landon Pearson, Deputy Chair

and

The Honourable Senators:

*Austin, P.C., (or Rompkey, P.C.), Carstairs, P.C., Ferretti Barth, *Kinsella, (or Stratton), LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Oliver, Ppin, Poy

*Ex officio members

(Quorum 4)

WITNESS:

International Social Service Canada: Agnes Casselman, Executive Director.

Transcript

OTTAWA, Monday, March 7, 2005

The Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights met this day at 5 p.m. to examine and report upon Canada's International obligations in regards to the rights and freedoms of children.

Senator A. Raynell Andreychuk (Chairman) in the chair.

[English]

The Chairman: We will reconvene and continue our study on the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Ms. Casselman, perhaps you could make an opening statement and then we will have questions for you.

Ms. Agnes Casselman, Executive Director, International Social Service Canada: It is an honour to meet with you and to have the opportunity to provide a response on behalf of International Social Service Canada to the report you will provide to the Senate on Canada's international obligations in regard to the rights and freedoms of children.

This is a topic of immense concern to ISS Canada and to the global work of International Social Service. ISS Canada is the national office of International Social Service. The ISS General Secretariat is located in Geneva, Switzerland. It coordinates the development of the international network of social services.

ISS Canada is a non-profit agency that provides linkages to social services and agencies worldwide. As part of an international network, ISS Canada helps resolve individual and family problems resulting from the movement of people across national borders.

I was pleased to receive the invitation to meet with your committee last Thursday while I was in Guatemala participating in an ISS regional consultation of the Americas on the theme: Children Without Parental Protection, Children in Migration. ISS key contacts, known as correspondents, from 32 countries of the Americas and other international NGOs attended the consultation for which CIDA provided primary support. ISS U.S.A. was the lead agency for the consultation.

I would like to express my comments in the framework of our discussions at the consultation, give you the benefit of the views of the many countries that participated, and share with you recommendations which have implications for our work in Canada and our international obligations to children who are deprived of parental care.

In beginning the consultation, the Secretary General challenged us to rethink our mission in a changing world. In the 81-year history of International Social Service, children have always been at the heart of ISS action. ISS promotes a global policy to protect children. We see children first and foremost as holders of rights. This consultation was designed to develop strategies for intercountry collaboration for children without protectors in the Americas.

The regional consultation was clearly set in the context of the framework of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and it highlighted many protection issues for these children. In the presentations and discussions, the emphasis was on the consideration of the rights of the child that is deprived of parental protection and the importance of using international legal instruments as a key means to support our work with these children. We were challenged to greater advocacy and to use these legal instruments as tools of advocacy on behalf of these children whose basic human rights are routinely denied and seriously violated.

Children in migration are essentially children without rights and therefore important to your considerations. They are children who are trafficked. They are smuggled. They are used for sex tourism, child labour and other forms of exploitation. One presenter at the consultation said that children from a particular rural area of his country were in demand, as it was known that they would work 16 hours a day and not ask for money.

We did not have children or youth present at the consultations. The authorities would not allow their participation. However, their voices were still heard through poignant interviews that were allowed and were held with five youths whose compelling stories as victims of violence of various forms were central to our deliberations.

We heard extensive, powerful presentations on regional perspectives and the need to find regional solutions. It is not enough to find solutions in one country or another. A regional approach is needed. We were given a heightened awareness of what it means for children to be uprooted from family, neighbourhood and even country. The extreme vulnerability of these young migrants who are first of all children was a reoccurring theme.

Violence within the home or parental abandonment may have driven them to the streets and ultimately to venture to another country where they might seek new opportunities and dare to hope for a future. Various presentations referred to the terrible atrocities they endure in being trafficked, stolen, disappeared, mutilated or killed in the migration process. We heard stories of repatriation, where children were returned to their country of origin under highly unsafe conditions and often dropped off in unknown environments. We noted that these children are at extreme risk, and there is no safety net for them. It is important also to note that there is no follow up upon their return to their country of origin.

We noted the lack of data and no reliable information on child migrants from various countries. We considered the issue of prevention and strongly endorsed the need the develop communication strategies so that children are made aware of the consequences and dangers when they leave their country to seek greener pastures over the border or borders.

We had presentations on the usefulness of the media to get across essential messages of the dangers they may expect to face. We heard of punitive measures at the border, and we watched commercials to address child trafficking. We heard repeatedly that detention should not be used. It is a violation of the child's rights who is presumed to be a criminal.

We discussed the need to change the approach from one of national security to an issue of child rights. We agreed that the CRC needs to be embedded in national law so that it would have full legal clout. We spoke of the difficulty of having one foot in immigration and one foot in child welfare, and the need to find the means to bring these opposing approaches together so that decisions are made in the best interests of children.

We recognized the need for the training of officials in immigration and other authorities so that the issues of child migration can be addressed, including the child's right to family and the need to develop safe mechanisms for the repatriation of children.

We heard presentations that addressed attachment and loss, two sides of the same coin, and the implications for the child and family of broken attachments and the lengthy healing process to reunite a child with its family.

We spoke of the loss of its children to countries. As a professor of psychology from Guatemala said, ``Without our children, we will not have a future.''

In October 2001, Senator Landon Pearson hosted a national round table on separated children seeking asylum in Canada that was convened by the Child Welfare League of Canada, UNHCR and ISS Canada with a view to improving awareness of the issue of separated children seeking asylum in Canada and addressing the children's protections concerns.

The aim was to bring immigration officials, child welfare professionals and refugee advocates together in furtherance of a consistent approach to separated asylum-seeking children. The recommendations made are still being followed up, with Citizenship and Immigration Canada taking a leadership role. A tripartite working group was established and work continues, but progress is slow.

In keeping with the commitment made in ``A Canada Fit for Children'': ``We will strive to develop a consistent national policy for the reception and care of separated children who have made refugee protection claims in Canada.''

The regional consultation highlighted for me many issues that we face here in Canada. Federal provincial cooperation in dealing with separated children is an issue of great discussion. Around 1990, I appreciated receiving years ago a copy of an immigration memo that had been circulated by Cal Best. It stated:

By constitution, the care and custody of children is determined by provincial legislation and this Commission is guided by the recommendations of the appropriate competent authorities as to the best interests of the child.

I thought that was a significant statement. In my opinion, it gives a clear delineation of roles. It obliges the provincial or territorial statutory authority, the child welfare authority, to provide care and custody, to be responsible to have the situation of the child and the child's family assessed where possible, and to make recommendations to CIC that are in the best interests of the child. CIC is guided, as the statement says, not obliged to accept, by the recommendations of the competent child welfare authority.

Each separated child seeking asylum is in need of a guardian. There is an essential role for the competent child welfare authority to cooperate with federal authorities in planning in the best interests of the child. Everyone has the best interests of the child at stake. Objective assessments by competent child welfare authorities at home and abroad need to be undertaken when this is possible. Follow-up when the child is returned to the country of origin needs to be part of the process, and strategies need to be in place for the child and the family before the child's return.

We recognize that there is a need for training and developing the expertise of the decision makers. This training needs to include interviewing separated minors and an understanding of the social, cultural and legal implications of decisions to be made for the minor. A moratorium on separated minors is in place in Canada. ISS would like to see this removed to allow for the processing of minors other than those for whom exceptions are made, namely, those separated minors that are part of a de facto family or those who are able to be united with blood relatives in Canada. ISS Canada is working with CIC on their draft guardianship protocol in this regard.

Children in migration who are separated from their parents or legal guardians are children who are in vulnerable circumstances and need the protection of the state. They move across borders and seek asylum in Canada and other countries. Many become victims of trafficking and other forms of exploitation. We need to be concerned about their reception in their country of destination, such as Canada, and about the planning that occurs with them. For those who are returned to their country of origin, it is essential that the children have the opportunity to be in contact with their family and, where it is in their best interests, to be safely repatriated.

We need to develop greater coordination between provincial and federal government departments, including CIDA, and NGOs for planning and implementing programs and services for refugee minors to their country of origin.

Many of these children leave their country because they do not see a future for themselves within their country and it will be difficult to help them turn that around. The CRC and the international conventions to protect children provide important measures to protect their best interests. ISS Canada recommends that the provisions of the CRC be reflected in federal, provincial and territorial legislation. Further, ISS Canada recommends the earliest signing of the 1996 Hague Convention on Jurisdiction, Applicable Law, Recognition, Enforcement and Co-operation in Respect of Parental Responsibility and Measures for the Protection of Children. This convention speaks to issues related to refugee children and the protection of their rights, including the issue of guardianship.

Presently, ISS is cooperating with UNICEF to promote the need for the development of international standards for children deprived of parental care. The international standard will be rights-based, elaborated within the UN and adopted by its General Assembly. This initiative will require the fullest possible involvement of intergovernmental bodies and recognized NGOs that will help ensure the necessary credibility, global acceptability and generic applicability.

I will be leaving a copy of this paper as well as another paper on kinship care, children with HIV and AIDS, written by ISS and UNICEF, in relation to the developments of these international standards.

In 2001, Senator Pearson advocated for the need for a commissioner for Canada's children, which ISS Canada wholeheartedy endorsed. We believe this important initiative or a close facsimile is needed to maintain a strong voice for children as our national and international priority. Our children are our best investment today and the future, and all efforts need to be made at the provincial and federal levels to promote and safeguard their best interests.

In closing, I would take this opportunity to pay tribute to one of your colleagues, Senator Pearson, who has been a standard-bearer for children's rights long before her presence was felt in the Senate. In the Senate, she has made the rights of children central to all her work and activities. Her far-reaching impact has brought about enormous beneficial results for children and families in Canada and globally. Last November, ISS Canada used the opportunity of our silver anniversary celebration to recognize her significant contribution. She inspires and engenders in each of us the need to advocate forcefully on behalf of our children and youth. We are very proud to count her as an honorary patron of ISS Canada.

Thank you for this opportunity to share with you some of the issues that ISS Canada sees as important to address in children's rights. It is important that the principles enshrined in the CRC also find meaningful and full expression in practice.

The Chairman: Thank you for your statement and your insights, and also your comments about our colleague Senator Pearson who, had she not been delayed on the road, would have been here to receive them herself. I am sure she will read the transcript.

I have been following the issue of minor children as immigrants to Canada and to other countries. Have the statistics changed at all? Several years ago, and particularly around the time of the 2001 conference, children were being used as a means of entry into Canada so that the rest of the family could come in, which placed them in a sort of double jeopardy. They would come to an unknown future, but there was an obligation that they do what they needed to do to ensure the entrance of the rest of their family.

As well, Canadian authorities and international authorities had not paid enough attention to young female migrants, who were particularly vulnerable. The authorities were not looking at a 16-year old girl who may have come here under promises of marriage, et cetera, and that situation was an additional abuse of young children.

Have either one of those statistics moved up or down recently? Are they of concern to your group?

Ms. Casselman: They are definitely of concern, but I cannot comment on the statistics. Statistics are such a moving target that it is difficult to comment on them. It is hard to find exact statistics. Statistics at the border may be different from those that go before the IRB, for example. There is a variation there.

The collection of that data is important for the work we do. It needs to happen, not only here but also in other countries. It speaks to the fact that we do not know who these missing children are who are on the move between countries. We do not have records. Some of them are not missed. We do not have that information.

As for getting a foothold in Canada by sending child, that does happen. Some of these children are placed at enormous risk. They come at great risk to their lives when they leave their country, and some go with the blessing of family. That is why it is so important that we do assessments. In my opinion, when children come to our country, they should be taken under the child welfare authority. They need a legal guardian, and that guardian needs to be responsible for arranging for assessments that will tell us what is in the best interests of these children. We need to know the circumstances under which a child migrated. Often it takes a while to get that information, if it is received at all. Sometimes it is known that the child may be coming at the impetus of the family. Sometimes the family does not know to what extent they are placing their child in great risk. Therefore, much work needs to be done in that regard.

We do not hear about many of those cases at ISS Canada. We are in a position to assist the child welfare authority and the immigration authority in getting assessments in other countries where the child's family may need to be contacted. We may be able to assist in getting that assessment of the family to help determine whether it is in the best interests of that child to return. Will that child be returning to a safe family, to a violent family, or to one where the child can receive care and nurture? We do not have those answers.

Children come to Canada, some to make a place for other members of the family to come, while others migrate because they see no hope for themselves and they, therefore, try to make Canada their home.

The Chairman: Do you have any comment on the question about the female child?

Ms. Casselman: We know that they are at extreme risk in the migration process. Many are used for sexual exploitation, labour and others. We need to give full attention to the female migrant and ensure that their interests are considered by competent authorities. We need to hear the stories of these young people. The girls have some very dramatic stories to tell.

The stories of the five young girls that were interviewed in Guatemala were absolutely horrendous. We heard some of the background. Without going into detail, we must pay particular attention to the female migrant.

Senator Carstairs: On page 3 of your paper you say that a moratorium on separated minors is in place in Canada. What does that mean?

Ms. Casselman: It means that the Department of Citizenship and Immigration will allow certain separated minors to come to Canada. Children who are connected with a family or who have a family member in Canada may come. However, others that we should be considering will have to be carefully considered on a case-by-case basis. We are working on a guardianship protocol with Citizenship and Immigration.

Senator Carstairs: Are you saying that, if a child who is separated in a refugee camp applied to come to Canada, we would say that because they are a separated child and do not have a direct family relationship in Canada they cannot come?

Ms. Casselman: That is my understanding, but that issue is being studied so that CIC can develop the necessary protocols in relation thereto. Currently, those that can come are those who are connected with a de facto family or have family in Canada.

Senator Carstairs: What happens to a child who arrives at the Canadian border and is determined to be a separated minor? Is he or she assigned a child welfare worker or are just moved along with all the rest?

Ms. Casselman: They need to be identified, and usually would be. Hopefully, the child welfare authority is contacted. There are specific problems in the province of Ontario if the minor is 16 or 17 years of age, and that issue has been addressed. When the child is younger than that, the child welfare agency needs to be involved and very careful planning must be done.

These are children without parental protection and the state should not treat them in a way that is different from the way they would a national child. The state should provide protective measures. It should ensure that the child has a guardian and that the necessary information is compiled and presented so that it can be determined whether the child is to remain in Canada or is to be repatriated to his or her country of origin.

Senator Carstairs: I certainly agree with you that that is what should be done. You obviously identify this child as a separated minor and one would assume that the child welfare authority would be called, but is that what really happens?

Ms. Casselman: I know that in some cases that does not happen, although in many cases I believe it does. Of special interest is what happens in the process if a child is returned.

The Chairman: If this young person is deemed to be questionable, they can also be detained by Immigration, can they not?

Ms. Casselman: Yes.

Senator Losier-Cool: Two or three weeks ago, the national news reported the story of a little Romanian girl who came to live in Ontario and was then returned home. Was an organization like yours involved in that case?

The Chairman: In case you are not aware of that case, Ms. Casselman, that was an international adoption. The parents decided that they would not continue parenting, so the child was returned to Romania. The question is whether your association would be involved in such cases.

Ms. Casselman: Although I cannot comment on any particular case, in some instances ISS Canada is called upon by agencies to arrange for an assessment in another country of the birth parent, for example. In some instances that may happen, but quite often it would not.

With regard to international adoptions, we are asked to arrange for child studies in other countries to support the work of the provinces in making decisions. They need objective assessments done on children and families in other countries.

The situation you referred to is very sad and tragic.

Senator Losier-Cool: You mentioned international adoptions. Many of us have heard from people who want to adopt internationally but that the process takes too long. We understand that this is because of the required screening. What is your perception of our process for international adoptions?

Ms. Casselman: The process is indeed lengthy, and perhaps necessarily so. It takes time to conduct these assessments, and it is important to meet the requirements of the countries. It depends on what people mean by ``long.'' When you want to adopt a child, you want things to happen quickly, and that is not always what happens.

We quite often hear about families who want to adopt as a result of crises in other countries, the tsunami being one example. However, children in such countries must first have the opportunity to be cared for by extended family, community or their country. Intercountry adoption should occur only when it is in the best interests of the child after these other options have been explored. It is not a first option; it is much further down the list.

Senator Losier-Cool: My question was not necessarily in relation to areas of conflict or crises. In Atlantic Canada, there was a trend to adopt young Chinese girls. Can you suggest a Read More ..peditious method for that that will not risk the trafficking of children?

Ms. Casselman: It is important to work with the provincial authority, the licensed agency in the province of concern, and hopefully do whatever needs to happen. We do not see all of those cases. We see a limited number. We see Ontario cases, we see some Quebec cases, but we have not seen cases in other provinces related to inter-country adoption. Therefore, it is difficult for me to comment on that. However, it is certainly a big area of concern.

Inter-country adoption is a major concern of international social service and, in 1993, following The Hague Convention on Intercountry Adoption, ISS established an international resource centre for the protection of children in adoption. For many years, we have been providing worldwide resources to countries of origin as well as receiving countries, including updated information on a monthly basis about intercountry adoption, and now we are extending that mandate to include The Hague convention of 1996 for the overall protection of children. It is of note that intercountry adoption remains an important area for us.

A government official here once mentioned that he was working in Gambia and he said that the newsletters from the international resource centre provided him with information that was very important for his work because there he was seeing women giving up their babies and not understanding their rights. He realized the importance of having information to support the work that they were doing in the field. ISS provides that routinely throughout the world.

The Chairman: You have mentioned many times the need for resources and the assessment of children coming in and being dealt with properly, including those children who will be returned. In the national round table of 2001, one of the issues raised was the fact that the provincial child welfare authorities have spent decades improving their professionalism in child custody matters, child assessments, both for juvenile courts as well as for adoptions, placements and protection issues. They are not skilled at identifying the needs and the issues around children from other cultures, particularly children who are traumatized.

As I recall in the national round table in 2001, this was signalled as an urgent matter and that, perhaps, the federal government should assist. In 2001 provincial budgets were dramatically been cut back in social services. It was said that these were the most vulnerable children and that we should provide training to these people so that they would understand the needs of theses traumatized children. They were traumatized in a way that is different from way children in Canada are traumatized.

Do you know whether anything has been done in the last five years to have some impact on that training and professionalism to identify the needs of the child?

Ms. Casselman: Some work has been done in the province of Ontario, around Toronto, with UNHCR, CIC, and three of the children's aids societies that are concerned Peel, Windsor, and Niagara are working on a protocol and on training. We are waiting to hear on that. Our working group will look at that protocol again.

more than that, I cannot say. I have not heard of any other initiatives in the training area. It is an issue that needs to be addressed and CIC knows that. I believe that they will be working on developing some training packages, but all of that is still work in progress.

[Translation]

Senator Ppin: Immigrant and adopted children are sometimes suffering from physical and mental health problems. However, few services are being offered to them in their own language by the community. You just said that in Ontario people receive training in this area and are attempting to provide services but do you know if those services are also provided to children with mental health problems?

[English]

Ms. Casselman: No. This is strictly related to the training aspect of the professionals. You are talking about service at the local level to assist parents and families, and dealing with children who come with a particular set of problems, issues and needs that must be addressed. I am sure there are services available out there through family services and psychological services, but they would be community-based services.

[Translation]

Senator Ppin: The Supreme Court has delivered a ruling on physical punishment for children. I would like to know your reaction to this ruling that Canada will have to take into account. Many of us have had varied reactions. I must say that I was somewhat surprised that the right to hit or slap a child was maintained. What do you think? How should we react to this ruling?

[English]

Ms. Casselman: Also with surprise and concern, yes. In my opinion, corporal punishment should be banned. There is a statement out now that ISS Canada will sign on to stating that we are opposed to that in any form.

[Translation]

Senator Ppin: What should the government do? We have been asked by the court to act accordingly but it is up to the government to legislate. Usually, when we are provided with recommendations from the court, we act accordingly, but this one came as a surprise to many.

[English]

Ms. Casselman: It certainly puts you in a different position. You need to react and make known what you believe is in the best interests of children. It is an issue, though.

Many children who come to Canada to be reunited with a parent may not have lived with that parent for many years. They are estranged from each other. The child may have been living with extended family in another country. The child joins a parent here in this country, and the parent may use corporal punishment on the child. Then, depending on the extent of that punishment, the parent may be charged and end up being deported.

All kinds of issues emanate from the use of physical punishment, which is why it is so important for the child welfare authorities and others to get some sense of the cultural implication here as it relates to the use of punishment. These parents need help in becoming parents again and learn to parent their children so that children can be safe and cared for in a meaningful way.

It is an issue for children's aid societies and others because they do receive children into care who have been punished. It then becomes their job to try to work with the parent to try to reunite that child safely with that parent. It is not an easy process.

[Translation]

Senator Ppin: We will try follow the instructions given by the court, but it is up to the government to enact a fair legislation.

[English]

Senator Pearson: I am sorry I am late. As you can imagine, the weather and VIA Rail are bad companions.

I have just been to a meeting in Kingston of the Children's Alliance. As you perhaps knew, they were having a meeting with young people. They are developing a youth policy. It is quite exciting, but what struck me was the number of immigrant and visible minority children in attendance. They are strong children, but they talked about the problems that many of them encountered in adjusting to Canadian society, and particularly to the school system. The schools vary. Some are much Read More ..ceptive than others. However, in some schools, the children are identified as refugee children or as children who have come in as immigrants. There is not much we can do about that, except talk about it. However, how the school system treats or accepts these children is a real issue.

When you are on the train for a long time, you have time to read the documents you have with you. I do not know whether you are aware of the United States judgment of Canada and our human rights. When you read through the documentation, you realize that most of what is said is true, so we cannot really complain about it. However, included in that issue is trafficking. In some cases, this overlaps with the work that ISS does, because some of the children who come in as unaccompanied minors or whatever may or may not be trafficked.

You may have already been asked questions about trafficking and the experience of your organization in this regard. Clearly, what the Americans are saying and correctly, I think, in this case is that we have not yet set up the services we need to set up, which will identify that a child has been trafficked and then give that child priority to certain services. Would you speak to that?

Ms. Casselman: Identification is a most important job. We have talked about the need for assessment, and identification is part of that for these young girls it can also be boyswho are trafficked. How do we identify them, first of all; then, how do we help them; and what services do we need to provide to them? It is a major issue, and it is certainly a important issue for ISS, because these trafficked children are exploited in many ways. They form the basis of some of the most important work that we might do to try to help these children.

They are children who are not missed. They have been let go by their families or they have taken off from their families, and they are just out there. They are vulnerable to every kind of exploitation.

Senator Pearson: As an organization, is there any recommendation you would like us to make as a committee concerning the issue of trafficked children?

Ms. Casselman: To involve child welfare authorities for these minors is extremely important. They need protection; they need care. They need to be brought in under the umbrella of the state and afforded protection and planning and services. To me, that is most important.

Senator Pearson: Should it be done immediately once they have been identified?

Ms. Casselman: As soon as they are identified, absolutely.

Senator Pearson: It should be a trigger.

Ms. Casselman: That should be a trigger. We need to involve those authorities to work with them and find whatever resources and support is needed for them. We need to hear their stories. We need to know what is going on and how we can help. I do not believe that is happening in many instances. That leaves these children open to further victimization. That would be my primary recommendation.

Senator Pearson: The Americans have a law that, once a child is identified as being trafficked, immediately triggers a certain set of actions. They may not be as extensive as they should be, but I do not think we have such an automatic trigger.

Ms. Casselman: No, we do not, but we should have that. That first trigger should be the competent authority. There should be no question about the involvement of the competent authority with these young people. They are still children.

The Chairman: When the competent authority is triggered, do they get access to the proper resources? This is a problem for welfare authorities. They do not put these children in appropriate care; they put them in whatever is available. Sometimes that is a detention centre, and I am not sure that is good for children. However, I think we can take that up with other witnesses and particularly with the ministers when they appear before our committee.

Senator Ppin: I believe I made a little mistake when I was speaking about the Supreme Court. The court was asked if corporal punishment was against the constitution, not whether it was good or bad. I expressed myself incorrectly.

The Chairman: We are pursuing the impact of the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

I would thank you for coming today in this difficult weather. We had not anticipated that; it is not our usual welcome to witnesses. We do not generally ask witnesses to jump over those kinds of hurdles to come here. We appreciate that you have had a long trip, and you still made the valiant effort to get here today. The information about young people in migration is an area that we will continue to investigate. You have opened the debate for us. I thank you for that.

The committee adjourned.